Seite 1 von 2 1 2 LetzteLetzte
Ergebnis 1 bis 10 von 15

Thema: Der "Harry-Potter-HBP-SPOILER-NICHT-LESEN-WENN-NOCH-NICHT-GELESEN" Thread.

  1. #1
    Registriert seit
    15.12.03
    Beiträge
    1,153

    Standard Der "Harry-Potter-HBP-SPOILER-NICHT-LESEN WENN-NOCH-NICHT-GELESEN" Thread.

    Anzeige

    SPOILER WARNUNG. BITTE AUS DEM THREAD ENTFERNEN, WER DEN NEUEN HARRY NOCH NICHT GELESEN HAT UND DIE INHALTE NICHT ERFAHREN WILL.



    Ich dachte mir, ich eröffne mal einen zweiten Thread für alle, die den Harry schon gelesen haben, und Lust auf "Wir-stellen-eine-Theorie-auf" haben. Ich habe nämlich wirklich einige tolle Theorien zum weiteren Verlauf des letzten Buches gelsen etc. Ich schreibe das aber erst hinein, wenn ihr meint, der thread hier macht Sinn - denn mit mir alleine diskutieren macht keinen Spaß *hallowasglaubstduwieesmitsnapeweitergeht*
    "At this moment, there are 6,470,818,671 people in the world. Some are running scared. Some are coming home. Some tell lies to make it through the day. Others are just now facing the truth. Some are evil men, that war with good. And some are good, struggling with evil. 6 billion people in the world. 6 billion souls. And sometimes, all you need is one."

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    01.05.01
    Ort
    Stuttgart
    Beiträge
    18,302
    Hi Slayer!

    Finde ich gut, warum sollen nur die Leute reden dürfen, die das Buch noch nicht gelesen haben!

    Also, meine bescheidenen Theorien sind

    1. Weder Sirius, noch Dumbledore sind wirklich tot, die formieren sich vermutlich irgendwo im Untergrund.

    2. Harry selbst ist ein Horecrux.

    3. Und als langjährige Star Trek-Guckerin würde es mich gar nicht wundern, wenn irgendwo ein Mega-Zeit-Zauber gefunden wird, der alles wieder heile macht - natürlich nachdem es zur großen Katastrophe gekommen ist.

    Im Internet las ich außerdem von der Theorie, dass Dumbledore ein in der Zeit zurück gereister Ron ist. Hm.

    Liebe Grüße
    Silke
    These violent delights have violent ends.


  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    31.05.00
    Ort
    Essen
    Beiträge
    14,082
    Ich glaube schon, daß Dumble wirklich tot ist...schon in Band fünf wurde doch schon mehrmals erwähnt, wie alt und schwach er wirkte...

    Meine Theorien zu Band 7:
    Harry, Hermione und Ron überleben bestimmt...ist doch schließlich ein Kinderbuch. Hermione wird Lehrerin in Hogwarts.
    McGon lebt wohl auch weiter, aber vielleicht stirbt noch ein Weasley...und hoffentlich mind. ein Malfoy.
    Viele Grüße, Lilalucy

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    05.11.04
    Beiträge
    506
    Oh das mit Harry als Horcrux finde ich überaus interessant........ da bin ich noch nicht draufgekommen..... aber es würde (zumindest so im ersten Moment, ohne, daß ich jetzt lange drüber nachgedacht habe) ganz gut passen

    Daß Dumbledore leider wirklich tot ist, glaube ich schon, allerdings habe ich da bei Sirius noch meine Zweifel.

    Daß Dumbledore ein in der Zeit zurückgereister Ron ist, hat JK Rowling auf ihrer Homepage soweit ich weiß bereits verneint (und wenn sie das erstmal tut, dann stimmt es auch, da wird also nicht geflunkert, wenn sie Fragen beantwortet ist es dann auch die Wahrheit)

    Das mit dem Zeitzauberdings alla Startrek glaube ich eigentlich auch nicht, das wär auch irgendwie doof, so wie: Huch alles war ein Traum, auf einmal ist alles wieder gut, ich glaub da wär ich sogar leicht angesäuert....

    Ich denke Harry kommt vielleicht am Ende wieder mit Ginny zusammen.....wär ja schon ein bißchen doof, wenn die getrennt bleiben.......

    Bei Snape würde mich in der Tat noch interessieren, warum genau ihm Dumbledore so uneingeschränkt vertraut hat obwohl alle anderen ihm mißtraut haben. Ich muß es nochmal nachlesen aber irgendwie kommt mir das alles komisch vor...... Voldemort hin oder her, Snape hätte Harry doch vor dem Schloß locker umbringen können hat es aber nicht gemacht. Und irgendwie glaube (hoffe???)/vermute ich auch noch daß er Dumbledore auch nicht ganz freiwillig umgebracht hat, vielleicht hatte er, wie Harry so seine Befehle von ihm, damit er nicht aufliegt??? Eigentlich bin ich mir da selber noch nicht sicher, es kommt mir nur etwas seltsam vor....grad weil Dumbledore ihm immer so vertraut hat (für eine Weile hatte ich mir während dem lesen sogar überlegt, ob Snape vielleicht sein Sohn ist, aber das fällt ja jetzt wohl weg)

    Ich denke weiter nach

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    10.03.05
    Beiträge
    76
    Was ich sehr interessant fand war ein Satz auf Seite 344 (hab das Buch grade nicht da, daher kann die Zahl falsch sein) unten, der sinngemäß sagte dass im Haus eines Zauberers nicht genau bestimmt werden könne von wem der Zauber gesprochen wurde, gleich mit dem Hinweis auf Harry und Dobby. Und vom Zusammenhang her hatte ich das da so verstanden gehabt dass damit das Haus eines erwachsenen Zauberers gemeint war und nicht eins in dem sich zufällig grade ein minderjähriger Typ mit Zauberstab rumtreibt Und dass ein Hauself da der bestimmende Faktor sein soll, daran kann ich nicht glauben...

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    01.05.01
    Ort
    Stuttgart
    Beiträge
    18,302
    Hi!

    Daß Dumbledore leider wirklich tot ist, glaube ich schon, allerdings habe ich da bei Sirius noch meine Zweifel.
    Die Verbindung zwischen Dumbledore und seinem Phönix ist aber so offensichtlich - und der ersteht ja auch nach der Verbrennung aus der Asche wieder auf.

    Außerdem, wenn du willst, dass ich glaube, jemand sei tot, dann zeig mir die Leiche! Geht nicht? Achso...

    Ich glaube schon, daß Dumble wirklich tot ist...schon in Band fünf wurde doch schon mehrmals erwähnt, wie alt und schwach er wirkte...
    Es wird aber auch immer wieder betont, dass er der größte aller lebenden Zauberer ist.
    Und ausgerechnet der soll sich nun so in Snape getäuscht haben? Nö, dat war alles abgesprochen!
    Jetzt ist Snape der Nr.1-Voldemort-Liebling und kann viel lockerer spionieren, und Dumbledore ist aus der Schusslinie.

    Ich denke, er wird zumindest als Obi-Wan-Kolrabi-Imitation sein Unwesen auch weiterhin treiben.
    Harry ist doch dermaßen instabil im Moment, den kann man doch nicht ohne "Erwachsenenberatung" rumlaufen lassen. Sonst wird der zum Voldemort...

    Liebe Grüße
    Silke
    These violent delights have violent ends.


  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    15.12.03
    Beiträge
    1,153
    Hach, schöön dass ich nicht alleine bin. Ich poste jetzt mal eine supermegatollediemachtsehrvielSinn-Theorie. Habe ich bei LJ gefunden - ACHTUNG, lang!!

    :"First of all, R.A.B. has to be Regulus Black. This has practical implications for Harry because, when he figures it out, it will help him find the real locket Horcrux.

    Where is the locket? On page 116 of OotP (U.S. paperback edition), Sirius and the kids are cleaning out an old cabinet which contains items such as a snuffbox with Wartcap powder, a music box, and a 'heavy locket which none of them could open'. I'd bet that's the locket in question.

    Now, one of three things could have happened to the locket, which we assume was thrown into the bin with the other things that had been in the cabinet: either it went out with the rest of the rubbish, or Kreacher nicked it (and Harry will have to go back to Grimmauld Place to retrieve it) or Mundungus stole it and fenced it. I'm willing to bet on this last one; why else would the scene with Mundungus and the stolen Black family silver have been given such prominence in HBP, except to remind us of Mundungus' activities so that it's not a shock when JKR brings it back up in the seventh book?

    Aside from the practical implications for getting and destroying the locket, Regulus' note sheds some interesting light on Regulus' death, Dumbledore's death and Snape's 'betrayal'. Why is this?

    Regulus states that he knows he will be dead by the time the Dark Lord gets the note. Not because the Dark Lord or anyone else will kill him for stealing the Horcrux (Dumbledore mentions, in his conversation with Harry about Riddle's diary, that Voldemort probably doesn't automatically know when a Horcrux is destroyed); instead, I think Regulus knew that the potion in the cave would most likely kill him when he stole the Dark Lord's locket Horcrux, which changes our conception of his death. Regulus was not, as Sirius said, an idiot who joined up and then got himself killed when he saw what he was asked to do and backed out; instead he found out about some of Voldemort's most precious plans for immortality and made an active attempt to thwart them. He went out in a blaze of self-sacrificial glory.

    Now, what does this mean for Dumbledore and Snape? Well, it gives us the knowledge (or at least the hint) that the potion in the cave is probably going to kill the drinker. Dumbledore hints at this too; he implies that, though it won't kill immediately, it will probably leave the drinker alive long enough to cause a lot of pain or perhaps even allow Voldemort to find out who had attempted to steal one of his Horcruxes. The biggest confirmation that the potion is lethal, and that Dumbledore knows or at least suspects it, is that he does not allow Harry to drink it--he all but says that he is expendable and that Harry is not. Also, later, there is the fact that Dumbledore chooses to save Harry (well, save him from himself, really, by Freezing him so he can't do anything rash on the tower) instead of defending himself; defending himself is less important because he knows is going to die anyway.

    So Dumbledore knows he is dying during the scenes after retrieving the locket, during the return to Hogsmeade and on top of the tower. Throughout the conversation with Malfoy he grows steadily weaker. Even as he is convincing Malfoy not to kill him, he is already dying (and probably has known he was coming close to death all year anyway, or why would he have taken the trouble to pass his work on the Horcruxes on to Harry?). Dumbledore reasons with Malfoy, not to save his own life but to spare Malfoy having blood and murder on his hands. The fact that Dumbledore is dying anyway would not make Malfoy's act of murder any less despicable, and Dumbledore does not want Malfoy to become a murderer; we get the impression that Malfoy is not naturally evil, anyway, in this scene. He is under extreme coercion.

    Things change a bit when the Death Eaters arrive--now there is the new problem of keeping Malfoy alive. Dumbledore knows that, if Malfoy doesn't kill him, Malfoy will probably either be killed on the spot by the Death Eaters or taken to Voldemort, who will kill him.

    So, here's my theory: when Snape appears, Dumbledore knows this is the perfect opportunity to accomplish all of his immediate goals--save Malfoy's life and keep him from doing a despicable act, plus allow Snape to fulfill his Unbreakable Vow (which I am sure he knew all about, just as he knew all about Malfoy's plan) and therefore a) not die and b) remain 'in' with the Death Eaters as a spy--and all this simply by doing something he knew he was going to do anyway: die.

    However, we are stuck in Harry's POV, so all we see is Dumbledore apparently pleading with Severus for his life, then Snape 'gazing at the professor for a moment' with a 'look of hatred and revulsion' and finally casting the Killing Curse. Later Harry will report this to his friends and members of the Order and it will be seen as a great betrayal (by everyone except Harry, who has 'known' it all along).

    But back up a moment: Snape gazes at the Headmaster for a moment. Two accomplished Legilimens do nothing but look at each other for a moment in the midst of a heated battle situation, and we are to assume there is nothing passing between them? Oh, no. I think Dumbledore is asking Snape, via his thoughts, to kill him. Remember that Dumbledore's pain and delirium in the cave have already led him to ask for release by death ('Kill me,' he says to Harry). Now Dumbledore is a bit more rational, but he sees that his own death at Severus' hands can serve a purpose. His pleas are not for his life but for his death.

    Snape does it without question or argument, just as he went back to Voldemort at Dumbledore's behest after the Tri-Wizard tournament. Unlike Harry, Snape takes Dumbledore's word as law.

    Reinterpreted in light of a request by Dumbledore, Snape's look of 'hatred and revulsion' takes on a new meaning. This is not hatred and revulsion for Dumbledore personally (or what Dumbledore stands for) so much as hatred and revulsion for being asked to do this to Dumbledore, for being asked to add murder to all of the other things he has done. This may explain also Snape's extreme reaction, later, to being called a coward; he has just been asked to kill the man in whom he placed his trust--the man who has protected him for fifteen years, and for whom he has done dangerous things, including spying and now committing murder in order to keep a student safe and uncorrupted by evil--and has complied with the request. Of course being called a coward after all this, and by Potter, would rankle.


    [/lecture]


    The locket/Regulus connection is very close to a sure thing--we know that JKR likes to plant clues for us, and a magically-sealed locket just happening to be in a house once occupied by a person with the initials R.B. (though we don't know about his middle initial) can't be a coincidence. The Snape thing, on the other hand, is much more my interpretation, though I do think the facts support, or at least allow for, it. When I've had a bit more sleep I'll go look up the exact quotes and page numbers...not to mention go back through 'Spinner's End', and see if that sheds any more light on the situation.

    By the way, and this is just a completely random thought, you know how JKR tends to get stuck on repeated details? In OotP it was people spilling/slopping/spitting out their juice/Firewhiskey/Butterbeer in surprise or disbelief (Rita and several others; I'll go look that up later). There was also Ron moaning and groaning about food every other chapter. In this book, did you notice just how often people sat down for a drink? The two ministers (whiskey), Snape with Narcissa and Bellatrix (bloodred wine), Dumbledore and the Dursleys (mead), and Slughorn with just about any and everyone, the big old lush. Also, how often Harry called Tom handsome? Just sayin'.

    --Garland
    Toll,oder? Ich finde, das alles macht sehr viel Sinn.

    Das R.A.B. = Regulus Black ist, habe ich auch vermutet. Und das hier:

    "Snape gazes at the Headmaster for a moment. Two accomplished Legilimens do nothing but look at each other for a moment in the midst of a heated battle situation, and we are to assume there is nothing passing between them? Oh, no. I think Dumbledore is asking Snape, via his thoughts, to kill him." Das denke ich auch, und das hier :"Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, [...]‘Severus…please…’ ". bestätigt das in eine rWeise. Dumbledore würde doch nie um sein Leben flehen!!
    "At this moment, there are 6,470,818,671 people in the world. Some are running scared. Some are coming home. Some tell lies to make it through the day. Others are just now facing the truth. Some are evil men, that war with good. And some are good, struggling with evil. 6 billion people in the world. 6 billion souls. And sometimes, all you need is one."

  8. #8
    Registriert seit
    15.12.03
    Beiträge
    1,153
    Geht noch weiter, wollte bloss nicht so einen mega-langen Post machen. Eine weitere Theorie zu Dumbledores "Tod":


    "In mulling over Dumbledore's "death" and other things in Book 7, it became obvious that so many answers lay in the early books. [....]Book One TSS there was a huge clue to Dumbledore and Snape's plan; the tip of which we witnessed in HBP. It was there "under our nose" all along.

    The first time Snape addresses his potions class, he reels off a litany of things he can teach the potions students to do:

    * bewtitch the mind;
    * ensnare the senses;
    * bottle fame;
    * brew glory; and
    * "even put a stopper in death"

    Dumbledore of course knew of Snape's skills with potions; indeed he counted on it. I bet that Dumbledore did not die from the Avada Kavarda curse because it was not meant for him but for the part of Voldemort's soul belived to reside in the horcrux Dumbledore retrieved. Nonetheless Dumbledore was severly weakened by drinking the potion at the dark Lake and the fall from the Tower weakened him even more. As he faced certain death, I think that Snape had a potion "to put a topper in death" at least long enough so that Fawke's lament and accompanying healing tears helped heal Dumbledore so the rest of the plan for Dumbledore to go into hiding could be carried out.

    Here goes my theory:

    Dumbledore was saved from death by Snape's potion and Fawke's tears (both reasonable inferences, and Fawke's lament is commented upon by JKR in several passages). Hagrid did indeed carry Dumbledore to the white table the day of the funeral, but he was inside the star-spangled purple robes alive and well. After the eulogy by the dimwit, Dumbledore himself caused the flames to spring up around the body afterall, flames are fire are a favorite Dumbledore motiff (he used it to keep the Inferi away at the dark lake). Dumbledore is an accomplished animagus. When the fire had consumed the robes, he transmorgified into the phoenix that Harry saw fly joyfully into the sky.

    The rub in this theory is that Snape disapparated after being chased by Harry, so when did he get a chance to brew his potion and give it to Dumbledore? So perhaps the part of Snape giving Dumbledore a potion is a little far out, but we definitely know Snape had the skill to stopper death for Dumbledore or anyone.

    The rest of my theory is supportable by text and logical inference therefrom.
    Spannend, was die Leute so für Theorien aufstellen, oder?
    "At this moment, there are 6,470,818,671 people in the world. Some are running scared. Some are coming home. Some tell lies to make it through the day. Others are just now facing the truth. Some are evil men, that war with good. And some are good, struggling with evil. 6 billion people in the world. 6 billion souls. And sometimes, all you need is one."

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    31.05.00
    Ort
    Essen
    Beiträge
    14,082
    Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, daß Regulus erst Totesser wurde, dann entdeckt hat, wie Voldemort seine Seele aufteilt, sich dadurch entschlossen hat, die Totesser zu verlassen und den Horcrux zu stehlen und ihn dann zuhause versteckt hat, und erst danach getötet wurde.

    "To the Dark Lord
    I know I will be dead long before you read this
    but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret.
    I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match,
    you will be mortal once more. R. A. B."

    Ich glaube, R.A.B. ist eine neue Figur oder der Geheimname von einem bereits bekannten.
    Viele Grüße, Lilalucy

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    05.12.00
    Ort
    Dresden
    Beiträge
    6,274
    Anzeige
    o hilfe, ich konnte nicht wiederstehen und hab's trotzdem gelesen.... dumbledore stribt???????????????????
    Stricken ist das neue Yoga

Ähnliche Themen

  1. Antworten: 31
    Letzter Beitrag: 08.12.06, 08:58:02
  2. Der "Verena ist zu blöd für Harry Potter" Thread
    Von beautyvictim im Forum Gelesen & gehört
    Antworten: 12
    Letzter Beitrag: 08.10.05, 20:56:21
  3. Harry Potter - ACHTUNG SPOILER MÖGLICH
    Von Caledonia im Forum Gelesen & gehört
    Antworten: 19
    Letzter Beitrag: 08.07.05, 10:14:37
  4. An die Harry Potter-Leser bez. "Butterbier"
    Von Paige im Forum Leckerschmecker
    Antworten: 23
    Letzter Beitrag: 18.01.04, 01:03:53
  5. Harry Potter Rätsel aus neuem "Stern" Magazin...
    Von Paige im Forum That's Life
    Antworten: 1
    Letzter Beitrag: 01.11.03, 22:55:45

Berechtigungen

  • Neue Themen erstellen: Nein
  • Themen beantworten: Nein
  • Anhänge hochladen: Nein
  • Beiträge bearbeiten: Nein
  •